Discussion:
Dynamic IP address services.
(too old to reply)
Stroller
2016-11-07 06:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.

I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.

I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd check here for recommendations first.

All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home router, although it would be nice if there was a free service with room for 2 or 3 hosts in case I need to add more.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Stroller.
Paul Colquhoun
2016-11-07 06:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stroller
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.
I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.
I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock
myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd
check here for recommendations first.
All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home router,
although it would be nice if there was a free service with room for 2 or 3
hosts in case I need to add more.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
I've been using noip.com for years with no problems.

There is even an up to date version of their client in portage.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Paul Colquhoun
2016-11-13 03:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Colquhoun
Post by Stroller
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.
I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.
I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock
myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd
check here for recommendations first.
All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home
router, although it would be nice if there was a free service with room
for 2 or 3 hosts in case I need to add more.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
I've been using noip.com for years with no problems.
There is even an up to date version of their client in portage.
Actually, this was removed a while back, as it wasn't being maintained, and
I'm using a copy of the ebuild I saved locally.

Sorry for the incorrect information.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Fernando Rodriguez
2016-11-07 07:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stroller
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.
I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.
I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd check here for recommendations first.
All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home router, although it would be nice if there was a free service with room for 2 or 3 hosts in case I need to add more.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Stroller.
I like duckdns.org. You don't need to constantly renew it and you don't
need a client. You'll get a url that you can call from a cron job to
update it.
--
Fernando Rodriguez
Willie M
2016-11-07 06:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stroller
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.
I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.
I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd check here for recommendations first.
All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home router, although it would be nice if there was a free service with room for 2 or 3 hosts in case I need to add more.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Stroller.
Hey Stroller,

This is my favorite. I have been using it for quite some time now.

http://freedns.afraid.org/

Hope the it works great for you like it has me.
--
Willie Matthews
***@gmail.com
Ian Zimmerman
2016-11-07 17:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++

I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0 on
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).

FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past :-)
--
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html
Harry Putnam
2016-11-08 02:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0 on
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past :-)
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are expected
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.

I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.

Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip that
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.

They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-08 04:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0
on
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past
:-)
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are expected
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip that
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
Harry,

What you need is a 'static IP'. Only your Internet Provider (ISP) can provide that.

Alternative is to use a company that provides SMTP proxy for outgoing emails or set up a mail server on a virtual server with a hosting company. Unless you know what you are doing and can keep it fully updated. Please don't run your own like this.

As for the static address: this will be a FQDN (fully qualified domain name/hostname) linked to a static IP.

--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 15:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Roeleveld
Post by Harry Putnam
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip that
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
What you need is a 'static IP'. Only your Internet Provider (ISP) can provide that.
You need a static IP address _and_ a domain name, _and_ a DNS server
with an MX record that points to that static IP address. The static
IP address comes from your ISP. Once you've got that, you can
register the domain name with any registrar, and set up the DNS server
with any DNS provider. If you've got a real, full-service ISP (do
they exist any more?), they can probably handle all of it for you.
Post by J. Roeleveld
Alternative is to use a company that provides SMTP proxy for
outgoing emails or set up a mail server on a virtual server with a
hosting company. Unless you know what you are doing and can keep it
fully updated. Please don't run your own like this.
Especially if you plan on running for president someday...
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Oh my GOD -- the
at SUN just fell into YANKEE
gmail.com STADIUM!!
Neil Bothwick
2016-11-08 15:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
You need a static IP address _and_ a domain name, _and_ a DNS server
with an MX record that points to that static IP address. The static
IP address comes from your ISP. Once you've got that, you can
register the domain name with any registrar, and set up the DNS server
with any DNS provider. If you've got a real, full-service ISP (do
they exist any more?), they can probably handle all of it for you.
Yes they do, they just don't bother competing is the "never mind the
service, compare the price" markets.

You should also have a backup mail host to accept mail should anything
happen to your server or its connectivity.
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by J. Roeleveld
Alternative is to use a company that provides SMTP proxy for
outgoing emails or set up a mail server on a virtual server with a
hosting company. Unless you know what you are doing and can keep it
fully updated. Please don't run your own like this.
Especially if you plan on running for president someday...
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have missed
that news item...
--
Neil Bothwick

Inland Revenue: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 16:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have missed
that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake for
the past couple years because during her tenure as Secretary of State
she and her staff ran used their own mail server rather than use the
State Department's email system. [They weren't very good about
following backup and archiving procedures.]

From what I've read, the State Department's email system was
notoriously bad and previous Secretaries of State had also gotten so
frustrated with availability and functionality problems that they used
outside email systems as well.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Somewhere in Tenafly,
at New Jersey, a chiropractor
gmail.com is viewing "Leave it to
Beaver"!
Ian Zimmerman
2016-11-08 19:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake for
the past couple years because during her tenure as Secretary of State
she and her staff ran used their own mail server rather than use the
State Department's email system. [They weren't very good about
following backup and archiving procedures.]
From what I've read, the State Department's email system was
notoriously bad and previous Secretaries of State had also gotten so
frustrated with availability and functionality problems that they used
outside email systems as well.
Yea, that is my take on it as well - this was a completely manufactured
controversy. I'd even bet that HRC's server was actually the more
secure one.
--
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html
Rich Freeman
2016-11-08 20:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Grant Edwards
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake for
the past couple years because during her tenure as Secretary of State
she and her staff ran used their own mail server rather than use the
State Department's email system. [They weren't very good about
following backup and archiving procedures.]
From what I've read, the State Department's email system was
notoriously bad and previous Secretaries of State had also gotten so
frustrated with availability and functionality problems that they used
outside email systems as well.
Yea, that is my take on it as well - this was a completely manufactured
controversy. I'd even bet that HRC's server was actually the more
secure one.
Well, I don't handle classified information, but if I had my work
correspondence sent to a personal email address on a server I
maintained, I'd almost certainly be fired for it.

The few folks I've talked to who do handle classified information say
that they would probably face criminal charges, or at least certain
termination, for doing the same.

Is this issue HRC's biggest problem? Hardly. Is it symptomatic of
the larger issues? Certainly.
--
Rich
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 21:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Freeman
Well, I don't handle classified information, but if I had my work
correspondence sent to a personal email address on a server I
maintained, I'd almost certainly be fired for it.
Even if it was the president of the company that ordered the server to
be set up and told you to use it? It was certainly against previous
State Department policy. OTOH, when the Secretary of State says "do
this", that sort of becomes State Department policy. ;)
Post by Rich Freeman
The few folks I've talked to who do handle classified information
say that they would probably face criminal charges, or at least
certain termination, for doing the same.
They claim was that they didn't knowingly use the private server for
classified stuff. It turns out they were wrong about that.
Post by Rich Freeman
Is this issue HRC's biggest problem? Hardly.
Judging by the Trumpian rhetoric, it is. There are people who say she
should be stood up in front of a firing squad and shot for it. And I
don't think they were being hyperbolic.
Post by Rich Freeman
Is it symptomatic of the larger issues? Certainly.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! If elected, Zippy
at pledges to each and every
gmail.com American a 55-year-old
houseboy ...
Neil Bothwick
2016-11-08 20:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have
missed that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake for
the past couple years because during her tenure as Secretary of State
she and her staff ran used their own mail server rather than use the
State Department's email system. [They weren't very good about
following backup and archiving procedures.]
From what I've read, the State Department's email system was
notoriously bad and previous Secretaries of State had also gotten so
frustrated with availability and functionality problems that they used
outside email systems as well.
The other problem with email, whichever server you use, is that it is
really difficult to convey sarcasm...
--
Neil Bothwick

Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 21:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Bothwick
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have
missed that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake...
The other problem with email, whichever server you use, is that it is
really difficult to convey sarcasm...
Ah, touché.

I had sort of secretly hoped that there might have been at least a few
people in other countries who had been spared from all of this.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I joined scientology
at at a garage sale!!
gmail.com
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-08 21:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by Neil Bothwick
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have
missed that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake...
The other problem with email, whichever server you use, is that it is
really difficult to convey sarcasm...
Ah, touché.
I had sort of secretly hoped that there might have been at least a few
people in other countries who had been spared from all of this.
Yes. A remote abandoned village in Antarctica....

The rest of the world gets to 'enjoy' this badly scripted soap opera disguised as a comedy show...

The worst part is that the worst candidates were actually chosen for this cage fight.
Of the two, the raping thief is actually the worst...

He has been compared with Hitler. I actually think he is a bit like Berlusconi. Except that Berlusconi actually did do things to help on occasion.

--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-08 23:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Roeleveld
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by Neil Bothwick
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have
missed that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake...
The other problem with email, whichever server you use, is that it is
really difficult to convey sarcasm...
Ah, touché.
I had sort of secretly hoped that there might have been at least a few
people in other countries who had been spared from all of this.
Yes. A remote abandoned village in Antarctica....
The rest of the world gets to 'enjoy' this badly scripted soap opera disguised as a comedy show...
The worst part is that the worst candidates were actually chosen for this cage fight.
Of the two, the raping thief is actually the worst...
He has been compared with Hitler. I actually think he is a bit like Berlusconi. Except that Berlusconi actually did do things to help on occasion.
Obligatory HHGTTG reference:

The purpose of the President of the Galaxy is not to wield power but
rather to deflect attention from it.

What are the odds either one will beat Zaphod and spend 10+ years in
jail while Prez?
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-09 09:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
What are the odds either one will beat Zaphod and spend 10+ years in
jail while Prez?
Slim, as they'd get fired as Prez after 4 years...
Then again, maybe the next Prez will be a convicted criminal?
That would be a first as well....

--
Joost
Neil Bothwick
2016-11-08 23:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Bothwick
The other problem with email, whichever server you use, is that it is
really difficult to convey sarcasm...
Ah, touché.
I had sort of secretly hoped that there might have been at least a few
people in other countries who had been spared from all of this.
It's actually a welcome relief over here, since all other news revolves
around our own ability to either pick the right voting option or respect
the choice of the majority.

We are not in a position to point the finger at any election shenanigans.
--
Neil Bothwick

Bagpipe for free: Stuff cat under arm. Pull legs, chew tail.
Harry Putnam
2016-11-09 00:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by Neil Bothwick
Has something happened with some president's emails? I must have missed
that news item...
Republicans have been trying to burn Hillary Clinton at the stake for
heh heh, I think Neal was pulling our legs..a bit.
Ian Zimmerman
2016-11-08 19:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
You need a static IP address _and_ a domain name
FreeDNS will provide the domain name, assuming you're content with a 2nd
level subdomain. You can examine the Received headers of this mail to
see how that works.
Post by Grant Edwards
with an MX record that points to that static IP address
MX records are optional. Per the RFCs, a conforming MTA MUST connect to
the address in the A record (provided by FreeDNS, of course) in the
absence of a MX.
--
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html
Kai Krakow
2016-11-12 09:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 11:33:26 -0800
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Grant Edwards
You need a static IP address _and_ a domain name
FreeDNS will provide the domain name, assuming you're content with a
2nd level subdomain. You can examine the Received headers of this
mail to see how that works.
Post by Grant Edwards
with an MX record that points to that static IP address
MX records are optional. Per the RFCs, a conforming MTA MUST connect
to the address in the A record (provided by FreeDNS, of course) in the
absence of a MX.
This is no longer optional as far as I know. MTAs still must do this
fallback for compatibility but it is recommended to have an MX record.

Some German mail providers even started to deny mails from senders
without MX. And lately, one even denied delivering mails to receivers
without MX (which somehow violates the above constraint but they
convinced me, pointing to an RFC, that this is correct behavior on
their site). So I added the missing MX on this particular domain.

Getting the MX correct (with matching reverse and forward DNS) is very
important to not have your mails classified as possible spam. So I
cannot comply with your suggestion that MX is optional. Really: don't
do it. Put an MX.

BTW: I totally suggest against using a dynamic IP for MX purposes. You
never know where your mail is delivered. There's chance that mail is
delivered to a stale IP, and there's an SMTP server accepting all your
mails. If you really want this, use ETRN at least, which probably won't
be supported by the ordinary mail service provider (at least not in
etrn-only mode). ETRN is an SMTP command to turn around roles: After
authenticating, you can turn around roles and let the remote SMTP
server spool all outstanding mails to your local SMTP through a new
connection. This means, the destination site on the remote SMTP server
has to be configured to put all your mails on the deferred queue until
you connect and turn [1]. Still, this means you don't have the MX on
your local site, just the second level MX (configured through a
transport rule). This is somewhat similar to POP3 grabbing. In this
case, the second level MX may be replaced by a simple A record, I
believe.

[1]: http://www.postfix.org/ETRN_README.html
--
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.
Willie M
2016-11-08 08:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0 on
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past :-)
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are expected
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip that
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
Hey Harry,

If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.

Only problem is that if your IP address changes, you would have a short
amount of time that your server would not respond (because of the IP
change). The default TTL on FreeDNS is 3600 seconds (1 hour).

Reading on the front page it says that you can edit the TTL if you add
your own domain. I don't know for sure how it all works because I have
never added on. It doesn't hurt to try and it seems like it would be a
lot better than what you are using now.

Hope this helps.
--
Willie Matthews
***@gmail.com
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-08 11:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0
on
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past
:-)
Post by Harry Putnam
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are
expected
Post by Harry Putnam
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip
that
Post by Harry Putnam
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
Hey Harry,
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Only problem is that if your IP address changes, you would have a short
amount of time that your server would not respond (because of the IP
change). The default TTL on FreeDNS is 3600 seconds (1 hour).
Reading on the front page it says that you can edit the TTL if you add
your own domain. I don't know for sure how it all works because I have
never added on. It doesn't hurt to try and it seems like it would be a
lot better than what you are using now.
Hope this helps.
Willie,

This will not work.
A reverse lookup (which FQDN for the IP) needs to work for all SMTP servers he is likely to send mail to. This would also include Google and Microsoft.

He needs to get his ISP to change the reverse DNS.

--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-08 11:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Roeleveld
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0
on
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past
:-)
Post by Harry Putnam
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are
expected
Post by Harry Putnam
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip
that
Post by Harry Putnam
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
Hey Harry,
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Only problem is that if your IP address changes, you would have a short
amount of time that your server would not respond (because of the IP
change). The default TTL on FreeDNS is 3600 seconds (1 hour).
Reading on the front page it says that you can edit the TTL if you add
your own domain. I don't know for sure how it all works because I have
never added on. It doesn't hurt to try and it seems like it would be a
lot better than what you are using now.
Hope this helps.
Willie,
This will not work.
A reverse lookup (which FQDN for the IP) needs to work for all SMTP servers he is likely to send mail to. This would also include Google and Microsoft.
He needs to get his ISP to change the reverse DNS.
ISP mail admin chiming in here.

If a host on a dynamic range tries to hit my MX machines and deliver
mail, that host WILL be denied. Most ISP's work similarly as we are sick
and tired and fed up to the yinyang of 99.99% of mail from such hosts
being pure spam.

Harry, you have 2 options:

1. Do it yourself and do it properly - get a static IP from your ISP
2. Don't do it yourself and do it properly - use your ISP's mail
relays, or use a relay provider

Why are you even trying to do this yourself? I do this for a living and
I can tell you it's a pain in the butt you don't want (*I* don't even
want it, I shove mail services off onto other teams as fast as I can get
them to take it...)
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
Ian Zimmerman
2016-11-08 20:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know for
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy feeling),
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
--
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-08 20:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know for
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy feeling),
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
Why do you think you can do mail mail than your ISP can do mail?
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-08 21:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know
for
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy
feeling),
Post by Ian Zimmerman
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
Why do you think you can do mail mail than your ISP can do mail?
When said ISP starts blocking legitimate email from people I correspond with on a regular basis who use gmail and hotmail, they become as reliable as old fashioned mail services have become.

And the blocking is done silently and can't be disabled.

That already made me start looking for alternatives.

When they then refused to relay emails using my own domain even though I am inside their network and am not sending large amounts of email. I ended up using those alternatives.

I would prefer to use my ISP to handle the mail deliveries, but when they are this incompetent....

--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-08 23:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Roeleveld
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know
for
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy
feeling),
Post by Ian Zimmerman
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
Why do you think you can do mail mail than your ISP can do mail?
You know, dealing with 10,000,000 inbound mails a day usually means
something suffers. And if you're using the free ISP service, you go in
Post by J. Roeleveld
When said ISP starts blocking legitimate email from people I correspond with on a regular basis who use gmail and hotmail, they become as reliable as old fashioned mail services have become.
I can't really comment. Are these people considered spammers by track
record by your ISP?
Post by J. Roeleveld
And the blocking is done silently and can't be disabled.
Yes that is quite usual. The rules are global (or at least wide in
scope) and the admins put them in for a reason. Perhaps they will tell
you what the reason is
Post by J. Roeleveld
That already made me start looking for alternatives.
When they then refused to relay emails using my own domain even though I am inside their network and am not sending large amounts of email. I ended up using those alternatives.
Correct again. When ISPs let their customers send their own mail out
from their regular customer ranges, and that mail is
spammy/malwarey/dodgy/goes on RBL's, then the entire ISP block gets a
bad rep and everyone suffers
Post by J. Roeleveld
I would prefer to use my ISP to handle the mail deliveries, but when they are this incompetent....
Or maybe you were using their free mail service.

Most ISPs offer managed mail (at a price).

It's the old story after all: cheap, good, fast. Pick any two.
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
Ian Zimmerman
2016-11-09 01:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
It's the old story after all: cheap, good, fast. Pick any two.
Very true. I pick the first two.

Also, my living situation means I don't choose my ISP.
--
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html
J. Roeleveld
2016-11-09 09:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
On November 8, 2016 9:52:51 PM GMT+01:00, Alan McKinnon
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know
for
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy
feeling),
Post by Ian Zimmerman
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
Why do you think you can do mail mail than your ISP can do mail?
You know, dealing with 10,000,000 inbound mails a day usually means
something suffers. And if you're using the free ISP service, you go in
That's the thing, I actually pay my ISP. The only semi-decent service they
provide is a fast (enough) connection. ADSL offerings are slower then cable
where I live. And fibre isn't available (yet?)
Post by Alan McKinnon
When said ISP starts blocking legitimate email from people I correspond
with on a regular basis who use gmail and hotmail, they become as
reliable as old fashioned mail services have become.
I can't really comment. Are these people considered spammers by track
record by your ISP?
Family, friends, parents of kids in my childs class....
I doubt they try to off-load millions of dodgy money to me via email. :)
Post by Alan McKinnon
And the blocking is done silently and can't be disabled.
Yes that is quite usual. The rules are global (or at least wide in
scope) and the admins put them in for a reason. Perhaps they will tell
you what the reason is
They actually can't, I raised this question several times. The worst part is,
it looks like some of their inbound mail-servers silently block it, while
others don't. As occasionally an email would get through.
Post by Alan McKinnon
That already made me start looking for alternatives.
When they then refused to relay emails using my own domain even though I
am inside their network and am not sending large amounts of email. I
ended up using those alternatives.
Correct again. When ISPs let their customers send their own mail out
from their regular customer ranges, and that mail is
spammy/malwarey/dodgy/goes on RBL's, then the entire ISP block gets a
bad rep and everyone suffers
I have my own domain for my emails, to not have to send out change-of-address
notifications whenever I decide to change ISP. Which can be the result when
moving house.
I have no problem using the ISPs SMTP-server as a relay (which used to work).
But now I need to log in and then it will change the FROM-address to whatever
is linked to that account. Which obviously causes problems as we use a set of
different email addresses for each family member along with a few addresses we
actually share.
Post by Alan McKinnon
I would prefer to use my ISP to handle the mail deliveries, but when they
are this incompetent....
Or maybe you were using their free mail service.
Most ISPs offer managed mail (at a price).
My ISP, unfortunately, doesn't.
Post by Alan McKinnon
It's the old story after all: cheap, good, fast. Pick any two.
In NL, that would be linked to a business account.
For that, I need to actually have a business, registered as such with the
local version of the IRS.
Then I end up paying more than I am doing now, for a significantly slower
internet connection.

--
Joost
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 21:12:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself?
Because mail is by far the best digital communication channel I know for
me (with my preference for text and logic over image and fuzzy feeling),
and so I want to do it as close to perfect as I can.
Speaking as somebody who ran his own e-mail setups for years: for most
of us, doing it "as close to perfect as we can" is to have somebody
else do it.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I feel better about
at world problems now!
gmail.com
Harry Putnam
2016-11-09 00:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
1. Do it yourself and do it properly - get a static IP from your ISP
2. Don't do it yourself and do it properly - use your ISP's mail
relays, or use a relay provider
Can you give an example of a relay provider... or do you mean
smtp.gmail.com or the like?

I tried several times to use newsguy's smtp servers, They host one of
my pop3 email accounts, but never could get it working. I have got
fastmail.com smtp server to work and gmail too but with either, sooner
or later something changes and I'm left dinking around with it for a
week until I finally hit on the right formula.
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself? I do this for a living and
I can tell you it's a pain in the butt you don't want (*I* don't even
want it, I shove mail services off onto other teams as fast as I can get
them to take it...)
I think you just convinced me it is a bad bad idea. thanks.

Nice to hear from a veterano mail dude.
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-09 06:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Alan McKinnon
1. Do it yourself and do it properly - get a static IP from your ISP
2. Don't do it yourself and do it properly - use your ISP's mail
relays, or use a relay provider
Can you give an example of a relay provider... or do you mean
smtp.gmail.com or the like?
You could use gmail but I get the feeling that's not what you are after.
That market tends to be localized, especially if you want some
individual attention for a reasonable fee. Around here there's for
example Synaq but you are nowhere near Johannesburg so that won't help
you much.

Recommendations from folks closer to where you live and work is what you
need, it's a very mature market so someone will offer what you need
Post by Harry Putnam
I tried several times to use newsguy's smtp servers, They host one of
my pop3 email accounts, but never could get it working. I have got
fastmail.com smtp server to work and gmail too but with either, sooner
or later something changes and I'm left dinking around with it for a
week until I finally hit on the right formula.
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself? I do this for a living and
I can tell you it's a pain in the butt you don't want (*I* don't even
want it, I shove mail services off onto other teams as fast as I can get
them to take it...)
I think you just convinced me it is a bad bad idea. thanks.
Nice to hear from a veterano mail dude.
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
Stroller
2016-11-10 11:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan McKinnon
Why are you even trying to do this yourself? I do this for a living and
I can tell you it's a pain in the butt you don't want (*I* don't even
want it, I shove mail services off onto other teams as fast as I can get
them to take it…)
I want one or two IMAP accounts, and storage for several GB of mail.

I believe Gmail creates its own special mailboxes for things like "labels" and archived messages, which I dislike. And Google is fucking creepy about the amount of data it openly stores about you, anyway.

I want to receive mail from multiple domains, and route it into my IMAP boxes as I wish. I want to be able to create as many addresses at each domain as I like (e.g. gentoo-***@mydomain.com, amazon-***@mydomain.com and so on).

My assumption would have been that any off-the-shelf mail provider is going to be less flexible than I desire, charge me extra for each domain I want to host, limit the number of addresses I can have, and require me to administer it all through a clunky or idiosyncratic web interface.

I understand that being a professional mail administrator for thousands or hundreds of thousands of mailboxes must be a headache, but I'd have thought that the job would be a lot easier if you're receiving mail for only one or a few people.

I would have though that accepting all DKIM-signed mail would enable me to receive messages from anyone with a Hotmail, Gmail or Yahoo account. Then I would think allow all mail from other domains more than a year old - I wouldn't have thought it'd be too onerous for me to blacklist by domain spammers who meet that criteria. Maybe whitelisting the odd new domain would be necessary sometimes.

I appreciate mine may be a very naive view of the problems of mail hosting, but someone who wants to host mail for themselves is coming at things from a very different position than you are.

Stroller.
Michael Orlitzky
2016-11-10 12:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stroller
I appreciate mine may be a very naive view of the problems of mail
hosting, but someone who wants to host mail for themselves is coming
at things from a very different position than you are.
As long as you don't have customers, running a mail server can even be
fun, but the initial learning curve is bonkers. Before you can do
anything, you need to get your IP address whitelisted or added to a
feedback loop with all of the major providers. You'll need reverse DNS
to match your 'A' record, and you should make sure (use mxtoolbox.com or
something like that) that your IP isn't blacklisted anywhere.

After that, all you have to do is set up postfix, dovecot, and amavisd.
Which ultimately comes down to about 100 lines of configuration... but
before you can do it, you need to understand the 25,000 lines of
configuration that you don't need and why. All of the HOWTOs are bad,
and you need to know how all of the pieces interact if you want to have
a chance in hell of debugging delivery issues. That can take weeks.

If you want to give it a shot, try to do it one step at a time. Start
with postfix delivering to local (system account) mailboxes with no spam
filtering. Then add the spam filtering (postscreen, amavis). Then add
the virtual accounts. Then add dovecot. Then make postfix talk to
dovecot. Then add sieve support. Etc. Your postfix configuration will be
tiny at the start (you still need to read through man 5 postconf,
though) and that way you'll only need to learn the parts that you're
adding. And if it stops working, you know what broke it.
Rich Freeman
2016-11-10 13:45:39 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Stroller
Post by Stroller
I believe Gmail creates its own special mailboxes for things like "labels" and archived messages, which I dislike.
Ironically enough the fact that no FOSS solution allows you to do
things the way Google does them is the main thing that keeps me on
Gmail. I want a single flat database of messages that are tagged with
one or more labels, of which the inbox is just one of them. Heck, we
already assign every message a primary key in the form of a message
ID.

However, there is no real open and standard solution to making this
work, so I'm stuck with a proprietary solution. Sure, a few mail
CLIENTs implement some of these features, but they're not integrated
into IMAP or compatible across clients, and so on. I don't want a
bunch of tags on my x11 client on one particular box that are
invisible when looking at mail from an android client on a different
device, let alone using a web-based client.

I want the labels/tags/whatever baked into my mail storage and visible
across all my clients. Back up the mail store once and all the state
I care about is backed up. That's what you get if you want
traditional folders and use an IMAP server.
--
Rich
Kai Krakow
2016-11-12 09:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 13:12:03 +0200
Post by Alan McKinnon
On November 8, 2016 9:43:30 AM GMT+01:00, Willie M
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
Post by Harry Putnam
on
[...]
Post by Harry Putnam
:-)
[...]
Post by Harry Putnam
expected
[...]
Post by Harry Putnam
that
[...]
Post by Harry Putnam
Hey Harry,
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you
will be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your
reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Only problem is that if your IP address changes, you would have a
short amount of time that your server would not respond (because
of the IP change). The default TTL on FreeDNS is 3600 seconds (1
hour).
Reading on the front page it says that you can edit the TTL if you
add your own domain. I don't know for sure how it all works
because I have never added on. It doesn't hurt to try and it seems
like it would be a lot better than what you are using now.
Hope this helps.
Willie,
This will not work.
A reverse lookup (which FQDN for the IP) needs to work for all SMTP
servers he is likely to send mail to. This would also include
Google and Microsoft.
He needs to get his ISP to change the reverse DNS.
ISP mail admin chiming in here.
If a host on a dynamic range tries to hit my MX machines and deliver
mail, that host WILL be denied. Most ISP's work similarly as we are
sick and tired and fed up to the yinyang of 99.99% of mail from such
hosts being pure spam.
1. Do it yourself and do it properly - get a static IP from your ISP
2. Don't do it yourself and do it properly - use your ISP's mail
relays, or use a relay provider
Why are you even trying to do this yourself? I do this for a living
and I can tell you it's a pain in the butt you don't want (*I* don't
even want it, I shove mail services off onto other teams as fast as I
can get them to take it...)
I can only second this...

As a full service provider and admin myself (using Gentoo machines
btw) we are also running our own mail central mail server with correct
RDNS etc. And it's a pain to filter out all those spammers correctly.

But we are also servicing our customers with their own on-premise mail
servers (mostly exchange). For the most part, we are also admin of
those servers.

The only sane configuration is to setup authenticated relaying. This
is, we forward proxy mails (by address rewriting) to the static IP of
the customer (with firewall in place), or in case of dynamic IP use a
POP3 grabber (everything is forwarded to the same POP3 box, not
catchall) and adding an original receiver header. P2S works great for
it on windows machines, use fetchmail for linux.

The setup scenarios are as follows:

example.com = MX on our site
relay.example.com = MX on customer site

Static DNS:

* Setup a special SMTP sending account on our site
* Forward @example.com to @relay.example.com
* Outgoing mails sent to our site, TLS, port 587, using smart relaying
with authentication (use the sending account)


Dynamic DNS (which would be your case):

* Setup one POP3 box for sending and receiving
* Forward each email address to this POP3 box adding an original
receiver header
* Setup POP3 grabber on customer site and let it decide to which
email account this belongs inspecting the added header


With the second solution, you are free to fall back to multiple POP3
boxes to fetch - but this involves some advanced strategies how to send
mails. With linux it's easy to do sender-based routing and using
different SMTP accounts for sending. Especially if it's all the same
sender domain, you can fall back to use the same SMTP account for
sending. If it's different mail providers, you should use different
SMTP accounts per sender depending on which provider the sender belongs
to.

Apparently, Exchange doesn't support sender-based routing, only
destination-based routing (I still wonder the purpose for this).


Background here is:

For spam fighting purpose, we only allow a customer to use senders
within their own customer account - even when authenticated. We don't
allow senders belonging to a different customer. And we don't allow
unauthenticated delivering with any sender on our system. This
successfully fights a lot of spam and account hijacking.


So in your case: Use POP3 grabbing, use authenticated sending, use
sender-based routing, and all should be fine. Don't try to be a public
MX. If it's only two or three accounts, it's fine. Otherwise it's not
worth the hassle. Better find a sane client solution that provides you
good mail storage usable from different MUAs. You usually don't want to
setup a local IMAP server for the long term, especially not on your
local machine.
--
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.
Willie M
2016-11-08 17:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Roeleveld
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
Post by Willie M
http://freedns.afraid.org/
++ ++
I had used both Dyn and NoIP before, but they both went all Web 2.0
on
Post by Harry Putnam
Post by Ian Zimmerman
me (and other well known ones probably did the same).
FreeDNS is just perfect for me - a blast of fresh air from the past
:-)
Post by Harry Putnam
Just the tiniest bit thin on explaining what the heck you are
expected
Post by Harry Putnam
to do on the various pages that appear when setting up an account.
I'd like to have a real ip for a change... been doing the fake home
lan thing for years and always there are problems with sendmail or
other mail apps. Either masquerading or some other work around.
Can anyone tell me if the freedns place will supply me with an ip
that
Post by Harry Putnam
will work for sendmail? Will stand up across the internet when other
internet hosts do reverse dns on my address for mail purposes.
They advertise static addresses too, is there any draw back to that?
Hey Harry,
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Only problem is that if your IP address changes, you would have a short
amount of time that your server would not respond (because of the IP
change). The default TTL on FreeDNS is 3600 seconds (1 hour).
Reading on the front page it says that you can edit the TTL if you add
your own domain. I don't know for sure how it all works because I have
never added on. It doesn't hurt to try and it seems like it would be a
lot better than what you are using now.
Hope this helps.
Willie,
This will not work.
A reverse lookup (which FQDN for the IP) needs to work for all SMTP servers he is likely to send mail to. This would also include Google and Microsoft.
He needs to get his ISP to change the reverse DNS.
--
Joost
Hey Joost,

I think I understand what you mean.
--
Willie Matthews
***@gmail.com
Grant Edwards
2016-11-08 15:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willie M
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Reverse DNS will work (modulo down times when the address changes,
like you describe). But, back when I used to run a mailserver using
that setup, I still ran into SMTP servers that rejected my mail
because it was coming from a dynamic IP address. Even though the
reverse DNS lookup and MX record were all kosher, they still knew my
address was in a range that was allocated dyamically and refused to
accept incoming mail. That was 10 years ago. It's hard to believe
SMTP servers have gotten more lenient...
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Will this never-ending
at series of PLEASURABLE
gmail.com EVENTS never cease?
Alan McKinnon
2016-11-08 15:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Edwards
Post by Willie M
If I a not mistaken if you change your nameservers to FreeDNS you will
be able to have that dynamic IP Address that way. So your reverse lookup
should work just fine.
Reverse DNS will work (modulo down times when the address changes,
like you describe). But, back when I used to run a mailserver using
that setup, I still ran into SMTP servers that rejected my mail
because it was coming from a dynamic IP address. Even though the
reverse DNS lookup and MX record were all kosher, they still knew my
address was in a range that was allocated dyamically and refused to
accept incoming mail. That was 10 years ago. It's hard to believe
SMTP servers have gotten more lenient...
They haven't. Actually they have gotten more strict.

Mine for example will not accept mail from known dynamic ranges, period.
Mimecast and friends can deal with that crap thankyouverymuch, and they
are welcome to it
--
Alan McKinnon
***@gmail.com
Samuraiii
2016-11-08 11:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stroller
Can anyone recommend a free dynamic IP address service.
I've used DynDNS in the past, but I think they discontinued their free accounts.
I've been using DTdns.com until recently, but have somehow managed to lock myself out of my account, so will need to create a new one and thought I'd check here for recommendations first.
All I need to do at the moment is access a single host behind a home router, although it would be nice if there was a free service with room for 2 or 3 hosts in case I need to add more.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Stroller.
I would recommend duckdns.org

it is free and need only curl to update...

S
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